Gas Price Hypocrisy

Well nothing like a good laugh to wake you up in the morning.
I didn’t know for instance that by raising the price of gas I’m saving people’s lives.
On one side there’s the President and then there is his campaigning twin.
Both with 2 different versions of what’s going on both a MSM favorite.
I just bought a new vehicle my first Hi bred the first thing they told me was Even though it’s called a Hi Bred don’t use the cheaper gas It will ruin your motor not to mention it does nothing for the environment.
Even Al Gore has flipped his position on this. I believe his words were ethanol does nothing to help the environment as a matter of fact it can be worst then pure gas. I was wrong it’s a waste..
What exactly was the cash for clunkers for?
All it did was spend more of my tax dollars for someone else to buy a new car.
How the media can turn this into a good thing while the rest of the country is suffering because of the cost of gas is beyond reason.
Where are the hard ball questions?
If President Bush was sleeping with the large oil companies as they said well what’s Obama doing?
Besides nothing as usual.
He may not have a magic wand but he does have a pen
It may take 10 years to find and develop oil reserves but it only takes a signature to
Reopen the gulf and other wells. Let’s work on alternatives while we stabilize gas costs not to mention our dollar which is another reason the cost is so high.
And that is a reason worth repeating. It’s a useless piece of paper
Why can’t they the media for once be the voice of reason for the American public

Al Gore's statement was that first generation ethanol - from corn - was a mistake because of the farm subsidies it produced. He is still in support of second generation ethanol production from bio-waste and things like saw-grass. Using food sources for ethanol production is what he has changed his mind about. I can't find any statement from him where he says that "ethanol does nothing to help the environment as a matter of fact it can be worse then [sic] pure gas". Could you provide a link where he makes that statement?

Tom Bal - I have looked for a link that backs up your claim that Al Gore said that "ethanol does nothing to hep the environment as a matter of fact it can be worse then [sic] pure gas". Can you provide one please. What I did find, on a Reuters site, was that he did say that it was a mistake to use a first generation source, like corn, for ethanol production. The main reason is because of the costs involved, including farm subsidies and increased food prices. He is still in favor of ethanol production, using bio-mass second generation sources and other things like saw-grass.

Sorry for the double post. When I checked at 12:12 the first post was still not up. I thought I'd screwed up sending it.

kharma...you are so correct! Thank you Obama for the doubling the price of gas on us, spending trillions like no other pres, and moving unemployment to near 10%. Thanks for reminding me kharma!!

Ref33...let me help TomB. However, if you turned on your computer and tried to Google all this you would find a warehouse full of Gore screw-ups with his ethanol bs.

http://www.newser.com/story/106003/al-gore-corn-based-ethanol-was-a-mistake.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40317079/ns/us_news-environment/t/al-gore-votes-not-science-led-me-back-corn-ethanol/

Need more?

Jim -No, I don't need more links. What I need is an explanation from you as to how you think these links prove your point. The links you provide repeat what I said. Al Gore said it was a mistake to use food based ethanol sources instead of other sources. They say nothing about ethanol being a poor choice for reducing our independence on oil. Are you so partisan that you cannot read?

Ref . most of the ethanol is still corn based ! So if Gore said it was a mistake , What
do you not get ?

Irked - what I don't get is the statement from Tom Bal that Gore says ethanol is a mistake. What is the mistake is to base it on corn. Use other sources. Ethanol itself is not the problem, it's where we get it from. Follow the lead of Brazil, who gets their ethanol from saw grass. Not a food source but an easily reproduced bio mass source. Speaking of bio mass sources, how about our "Forward" thinking Gov, who chooses to eliminate alternative fuel sources.

Tom,

Hybrids and Cash for Clunkers have absolutely nothing to do with ethanol. There are vehicles which are built for "Flex Fuel," which means they can use E85... but that's completely different from a hybrid.

Hybrids get better mileage by using the car battery to help the engine out instead of burning more gas. The hybrid is liquid fuel/electric, and has nothing to do with alternative liquid fuels (biodiesel and ethanol).

Cash for Clunkers was a gift to the automotive industry, as well as an attempt to improve the mileage of vehicles on American roads. Better mileage is better mileage, regardless of whether you're burning gasoline, diesel, or ethanol. Whichever fuel is being used, less of it will be used.

Corn based ethanol was never a long-term option for anyone who wasn't putting the subsidies into a bank account somewhere. Similarly, biodiesel from soy doesn't get us where we need to be. Those were the easy place to get started, prove the concept, and get the infrastructure in place. Second and third generation biofuels actually gain ground on oil.

Brazil goes a long way in supplying energy with ethanol from sugar cane. The high sugar content makes it more viable. Jatropha and other inedible crops which grow in areas that won't grow food are being used for green diesel and biodiesel. The next step is cellulosic ethanol (from non-food carbohydrates) and algal oils into green diesel and biodiesel.

And the Gulf of Mexico has been reopened for drilling. Just with more safety regulation. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/01/nation/la-na-deepwater-permit-20110301

For the claim in the video presented by Ms. Hemmer that suddenly stories appear talking about the benefits of high gas prices... those were out during the Bush years as well. Lower road fatalities because of high gas prices (I remember seeing these around... this is the first one on a Google search today from a legitimate mainstream media source) http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/24284564.html

I recall talk then about high prices driving people to more fuel efficient vehicles and driving innovation in biofuels. In fact, the line I remember from then was that American auto makers had put so much effort into the gas guzzlers we wanted (Hummers, SUVs, etc.) that they were losing out on the new car sales to foreign manufacturers that favored fuel economy.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2008/06/rising-gas-pric/

And in the previous blog post, the articles mentioning Barack Obama had him calling for a commission to investigate price-fixing, commodities speculators, and others abusing the markets. Then, once he was in office, he asked the Attorney General to investigate price-fixing, commodities speculators, and others abusing the markets. Sounds like he's taking his own advice. He sees that high gas prices suck (like he said in the campaign event in the video), and he's doing something. Maybe not what you want, but something.

In the articles cited, other Democrats took a more direct approach of attacking President Bush (especially John Kerry in 2004). Polls showed that people blamed the guy at the top. Not the same as Barack Obama and the media attacking President Bush.

Ref333...you didn't ask Tom about Gore saying or if ethanol is a poor choice for replacing oil. You said, "I have looked for a link that backs up your claim that Al Gore said that "ethanol does nothing to hep the environment as a matter of fact it can be worse then [sic] pure gas".

Ref: it was in his speech I cannot find the link but I am still trying.
Your question was only one of many reasons he gave another was that it cost more to produce the product then it may have been worth which he also stated was not environmentally sound.
Reason being the amount of heat to make such product cost more than the product saved in gas.
An EPA report also came out at the same time noting that Eternal was not environmentally safe as once thought.
It was a campaign issue he said he used to try and get the farm vote in Iowa and Tennessee.
I will try and find the speech for you.
We have known for five years now that it takes more energy to make a gallon of ethanol than it produces. I believe the number is 2.4 BTUs to make 1 BTU of Ethanol
We should have stopped making ethanol years ago."
http://skinnyreporter.com/goreadmitserrors.html.
Hope this helps but you are right he does like 2nd generation of ethanol.
There are also members of environmental groups that disagree with him. Hope this helps

Peter: you are right to a point I was in a hurry and should not have used the word Hy Bred It was Flex fuel. 85% poop gas.
Sorry for using the wrong word. .
I don’t see where I said cash for clunkers had anything to do with ethanol.
My cash for Clunkers line had moved on to a different subject
Yes he may have said to help the auto Industry but the program was set up to 1 help the auto industry 2 stimulate the economy 3 environmental reasons their reason remove carbon foot print. Remove guzzlers from the road.

When you traded your vehicle in the car you bought had to get more miles to the gallon I don’t remember what the cut off was. But if you had a car that got say 17 miles to the gallon the one you traded in for had to get better mileage. The government had and still has a web site to see what vehicles would be allowed.
Under this web site one of the sub titles is “Why fuel economy is important”
Now I am still trying to find the site that shows where any SUV made gets 8 mile to the gallon like the president stated. This may take a while..

President Obama when campaigning for office said we would get better gas mileage if we had our cars tuned up and tires properly inflated. If a person driving a SUV does not get a weekly tuneup, and only puts 20 PSI into their tires, I can see where 8 MPG comes in.
Also, I am very upset that I can't afford a VOLT. Why do I have to pay more in gas taxes to maintain our roads than the "rich" using the same roads but less gas, therefore paying less gas taxes?
I thought we were to tax the wealthy.

Amy, you are aware that the price for gas is set in the world market, drilling in the gulf even if they were to reopen all the wells that have been drilled and capped that oil would do little to affect the price of gas and oil on the open market. As the recent drop in crude shows the price of gas and oil is set in the commodities market and has little to do with actual consumption.
What I find curious is how the refineries are always having problems (perhaps if the oil industry would reinvest in infrastructure instead of just paying dividends to its investors) increasing the price of gas higher. Tell me exactly what a president can do to affect the price of gas.
I agree with ending the subsidies, why should an industry need the tax payer to subsidize them when they are making record profits. Where is the logic in that.

sirlaughsalittle: As long as you feel we should change names, we will qoute Nancy Pelosi's comment when Bush was President (slightly changed)
FORMER House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Thursday blamed the "two oil men in the White House," President Obama and Vice President Biden and their Democrat allies in Congress for gas prices exceeding $4 a gallon. "

Tom,

Your Flex Fuel vehicle won't run on E85? That's horrifying (especially as the whole point is that it's supposed to run on anything from E85 to unleaded gasoline). That's the worst kind of deceptive advertising.

I apparently read your Cash for Clunkers line differently than you intended it. Looks like we generally agree about what was going on there, though. Worth the investment or not, directionally it did those three things. Per Wikipedia, the trade-ins had to get below 18 mpg with new vehicle mileage of 22 mpg or higher. That's using a government database of mileage for used vehicles.

The 8 mpg was insensitive use of hyperbole. I don't imagine any vehicles in relatively good shape get such terrible mileage. If I were picking out an arbitrary low mileage, I would say either 5 or 10 mpg... so it's possible that was part of the question he was asked.

Moving on to the actual point, if you have a larger vehicle than you need, you have made a choice to pay more in gas. Higher prices exacerbate the situation, but it's a personal choice. If anyone thought gas prices were stable and low, they haven't been paying attention. There are plenty of pickups and the like being driven by people who don't need them. If President Obama's remarks in the video weren't directed at people making choices like those, please provide the context. Who's he talking to?

Peter: No it will run on it but my dealer strongly advised me to never use it.
As a matter of fact he just came right out and said I would not use it if you don’t have to .
Just too many problems in the long run.

ExtoDResident: Of course I know that presidents cannot be solely to blame in any way for high gas prices. Presidents really have little control over such things, although a certain political party has done all it can to prevent the United States from drilling for it's own oil.
The point is, that when Bush was president, the press and Dems blamed him personally for high gas prices. That was the message from the media. There was the fingerpointing from the likes of Pelosi and Obama.
Now, with Obama in the White House, blame has been deflected. Why, it must be a conspiracy - from a recent "Face the Nation":

"Connecticut Sen. Richard Blumenthal on Sunday called for a grand jury investigation into possible wrongdoing in relation to rising gasoline prices, and urged the government to actively fight "the kind of illegal speculation and trading and hedge fund activity that may be driving prices up."
In an appearance on CBS' "Face the Nation," Blumenthal commended President Obama for forming a task force aimed at rooting out fraud or manipulation in the oil and gas markets, but argued that stronger actions were required."

Ah, so when Bush was president, gas prices rose cuz all his buddies were evil oil guys - intent on making even MORE money! Yeah! That's it! But when Barry O. is prez, why, the evil oil companies and others are trying to make profits and must be investigated!!! Just don't look at Obama for help....or blame.