The Religion of Peace
I watched and read several commentaries, memorials and tributes associated with the 11th anniversary of 9/11 last Tuesday. Remembering the victims certainly is appropriate, but nowhere did I find a single reference to who did it. I know we're trying very hard to not offend Muslim sensitivities, which seems not to be working all that well, witness the deadly outrage at the U.S. embassy in Libya and violent demonstrations in Egypt. Seems like the Arab Spring has turned to winter. Some of us felt all along that it was less an expression of democracy and more a power play by radical Islamic elements. Sadly, it appears we may have been right.
We have, or at least had, a tendency to heap scorn on the 19 or 20 perpetrators of the destruction of the WTC twin towers and concurrent murder of thousands of innocents. We usually picture terrorists as wild-eyed ignorant fanatics blowing themselves up. Yet, the 9/11 perpetrators were generally well-educated mostly Saudi men, some of them professionals. However, they chose to immolate themselve in a blatant attack on the U.S. Their motivation was their fervent religious belief, a belief that includes destroying obstacles to the spread or Islam. (The Koran does encourage persuasion but also condones violent and deadly destruction of obstacles to the propagation of the faith.)
These men were simply firm believers in their religion, generally a desirable chracteristic. They felt compelled to martyr themselves in support of that religion, also not really a bad thing when you consider the fate of the Christian apostles. They, however, felt justified in taking many innocent lives with them. Osama bin Laden, the architect of 9/11, was a respected and well-educated professional man as well as a fervent believer. Make no mistake, these people are not kooks, which makes this paradigm even more dangerous.
So, where is the evil in all this. Certainly this was an evil act, considering the loss of innocent life. Was it in the act itself or those who perpetrated it? No, the act in itself was not evil, but the Wahhabist form of radical Islam that justified the act is the true evil. The perpetrators died for their faith. I don't blame them, but then who is to blame? Let us take a look at this faith.
Islam and Christianity have common roots. The Biblical Old Testament is the basis of much of the Koran. The Old Testament contains accounts of bloody violence, a fact frequently pointed out to me, even to the extent of the massacre of women and children. I'm not going to try to justify these historical events. Theologians have twisted themselves into knots trying. The fact is, they happened. But that was then and this is now.
Recall also that Christianity and Islam worship the same Diety. Allah is just another name for God. So, why does radical Islam kill and destroy to defend and spread its faith while Christianity, with the same imperative to spread the faith, does not? The difference is that Christianity is based on the New Testament, the life and ministry of Jesus Christ. Mohammad is not Jesus. Islam does not have the benign persuasion characteristic of present-day Christianity. (Judaism is another case which I will neglect for now.) We send out missionaries, they--the Wahhabists and their sympathizers--send out bombers.
Why us? What did we ever do to Islam to earn their enmity? The simple truth is, it's our very existence. Remember, Islam demonizes obstacles to the spreading of the faith. The United States, a very successful, rich and extremely powerful Christian (mostly) nation, is a powerful symbolic obstacle to the world-wide spread of Islam. Israel, as a successful Jewish nation in the desert of the Middle East, is another hated symbol of non-Islamic success. However, Israel is small and not nearly the equal of the U.S. It's no accident that Israel is known in the Islamic world as the "Little Satan," but the U.S is known as the "Great Satan." WE are the big problem for expansionist, radical Islam. Thus, we are the target. The Atlantic Ocean and vigilent security measures have protected us for some time, but cannot be depended on to shield us indefinitely.
We must recognize that our enemy, radical, Wahhabist Islam, not a small group by any means and growing, considers our very existence an abomination. As the Israelis know, this enmity will never end. Certainly not all Muslims subscribe to this aggressive form of Islam, just as there are many different Christian denominations, but the radical element is strong and relentless and, sadly, frequently enjoys the tacit approval of the non-violent sects of Islam.
I have no happy ending. But we endanger ourselves by letting down our guard. Apologetics and appeasements will not work. The problem is not what we do, it is us. We would do well not to forget that on this anniversary of the most successful terrorist attack ever.
We encourage your comments but will strive to remove discussion that contains personal attacks, racial slurs, profanity or other inappropriate material as outlined in our guidelines. We post-moderate comments on most content, but may choose to pre-moderate some comments so please be patient if you don't see yours appear right way. We also ask for your help by reporting comments you think are inappropriate.
- Stroke Story (35)
- Face of Evil-Boston (62)
- Terror in Boston (57)
- By Way of Explanation/Guns Revisited (129)
- A Life Lost (7)
- Return (125)
- Face of Evil II (97)
- A Day of Infamy (49)
- Aaaauuuggghh! We Lost!! (75)
- Vote for .... ! (8)
- The War of the Words (52)
- Vaya a Dios, Vieho (103)
- The Religion of Peace (70)
- Dual--Darkness and Light (111)
- The Face of Evil (115)
- The God Particle (92)
- Postmortem (17)
- Cold War Warrior (12)
- "And Some Gave All" (5)
- The Comedy of Errors (30)
- The Class Struggle (28)
- F/A 18D Virginia Crash (10)
- The Death of Morality (94)
- Jobs, Jobs, Jobs! (53)
- Insurrection! (33)
- Patriotism (33)
- The Masque Cometh Away (65)
- "The World's Gone Mad!" (102)
- Contagion! (25)
- A.B.O. (144)
- Where Have All The Jobs Gone? (123)
- Light My Volt! (95)
- The Recallodrome (39)
- In the Eye of the Beholder (93)
- The World's Policeman (13)
- Censorship (26)
- E Pluribus Unum (54)
- The Crash of the Galloping Ghost-Update (13)
- The Crash of the Galloping Ghost (4)
- A 9/11 Retrospective (53)
- Responsibility (47)
- "Please Help the Poor!" (41)
- The Sky Didn't Fall (8)
- Toxic Air (71)
- Tension, Apprehension and Dissension (90)
- Independence Day (109)
- The Penney Idea (117)
- Something is Missing (51)
- Boycott!! (17)
- Memorial Day, 2011 (18)
- The Kloppenburg Konspiracy (74)
- The Assassination of OBL (13)
- ... By Any Other Name (180)
- The Green Thing (10)
- A Date That Will Live in Infamy (2)
- Military Madness (53)
- Japanese Meltdown (44)
- Rights and Freedoms (48)
- Change! (28)
- "You're a Bad Player!" (35)
- Chickens and Potatoes (181)
- Quadrology (72)
- The Road Travelled, The Road Ahead (42)
- Life and time (17)
- Peek-a-Boo, I C U (58)
- Never Forget; Never Again (8)
- "... turns the leaves to flame" (13)
- The Lion Sleeps No More (98)
- A Bit of Election Perspective (28)
- A Plea for Understanding (32)
- Global Humbug VI.1 (29)
- The Persian Bomb (9)
- A 9/11 Perspective (37)
- Blue Skies (26)
- Let Them Build It (11)
- What Happened to the Oil? (19)
- "We have met the enemy ..." (4)
- The Border Problem (11)
- The Tunnel to Nowhere (20)
- Danger from Within (40)
- Sauce for the Gander (50)
- Crying Over Spilt Oil (19)
- Dodging the Bullet - The NY Bomber (17)
- Israel and the PR War (9)
- On Perusing the Newspaper (48)
- Protect and Defend II - Star Wars and Stealth (8)
- Lexideception (21)
- Global Humbug VI--Finis (72)
- An Easter Message (11)
- The Wars of the Roses (8)
- High Iron (5)
- Flight Passages (9)
- Protect and Defend (24)
- Ah So! Coincidence You Say? (22)
- White-Out (9)
- Contrast (17)
- The Elitocracy (90)
- Reverse Profiling (25)
- Life and Time (8)
- Humane or Cost-Effective? (24)
- Goodbye for Now (4)
- Boiling Water (45)
- Law of Unintended Consequences II (18)
- A Personal Health Care Experience (10)
- "What's up, Doc?" (29)
- Nuke Me, Nancy! (22)
- Fly Me to the Moon (7)
- Economic Models (30)
- Apology (71)
- Global Humbug V (78)
- Hero Worship (29)
- Independence Day (25)
- Global Humbug IV (30)
- The Broken Engine (23)
- The Suicide Complex (23)
- The Middle East Muddle (64)
- Blowin' in the Wind (6)
- Judge Me Not (4)
- The Red Shift (9)
- "Batteries Not Included" (2)
- The Boys of Pointe du Hoc (5)
- Mendacity (0)
- Unreality (0)
- Green Space (2)
- The Love Affair (20)
- Torturous Interrogation (7)
- The White Horse (7)
- Social Engineering (0)
- Taxed Enough Already (7)
- Bricks, Mortar and Asphalt (6)
- Nature vs. the News (0)
- Media Control? (15)
- A Deer in the Headlights (8)
- Stem Cells - Unmasked (5)
- The Enemy (15)
- CO Flight 3407 Crash (0)
- Stealth Health (9)
- Global Humbug III (7)
- The Money Tree (0)
- Spare the Rod... (0)
- The Whole Truth (9)
- Whence Digital TV? (0)
- "Rescue Me, Please!" (4)
- Spooks and Snoops (7)
- Airbus A320 Crash (5)
- Paying the Piper (26)
- Feeding Frenzy (0)
- DTV Unmasked (7)
- School Daze (0)
- In the Beginning... (8)
- The Law of Unintended Consequences II (2)
- Winter Wonderland (0)
- The Politics of Corruption (0)
- Deficit Divertissement (0)
- Rescue Me, Please! (17)
- Haitus (6)
- The Law of Unintended Consequences (17)
- The Boys of Pointe du Hoc (3)
- The Mourning After (25)
- "Thru a Glass Darkly" - The Election (9)
- Magical Thinking - The Abortion Controversy (11)
- A Little Decorum, Please (49)
- Give Light ... (4)
- The Sophistication of Deception (9)
- Bailout Boondoggle (3)
- Issues and Non-Issues (9)
- Bailout Bedlam (0)
- Bailout Blitzkrieg (8)
- 9/11 Retrospective (20)
- Perspective on Defense Spending (1)
- Beauty in Creation (4)
- Evolution: Fact or fiction (29)
- It Really is the Sun, Son! (0)
- The Georgian Knot (4)
- The emPHAsis is on the wrong sylLAble (8)
- Jason Lives! (6)
- T. Boone Doggle (1)
- Oil and Nukes (11)
- Wind, Sun and Oil (3)
- Cornpone Politics - Redux (0)
- Moonshine Madness - The Great Ethanol Scam (4)
- The Helping Hand (0)
- Cornpone Politics (0)
- The Latest Obamaflap (4)
- The Corruption of Science (2)
- Parenting 101 (0)
- The Sport of Kings(?) (0)
- "You Can't Say THAT!" (2)
- The Truth About Tuskegee (3)
- DUI in Wisconsin (3)
- Iraq War-Up Close and Personal (3)
- Why Johnny Can't Write, or Read, or Add. (1)
- Whither Wales Water II (0)
- Iraq War Followup (3)
- Global Humbug II (0)
- The Iraq War (Oh No! Not Again!!) (5)
- Economics 101 (3)
- Global Humbug (3)
- A Mania for Development (2)
- Valentine's Day Massacre (1)
- By Way of Introduction (0)
- Whither Wales' Water? (1)
- More Eagle's Eye posts






66 Comments
jman99 - Sep 13, 2012 6:18 PM
You have to practice it every day.
You can't put it to one side just because you want or need something for yourself. Once you do that, you put yourself ahead of the religion of peace.
Peace means you preserve it both for yourself and for others because you see them as equally deserving of peace.
MGarber - Sep 13, 2012 8:25 PM
No they wernt! They were zealots, and that is almost never a desirable chracteristic.
Dont loose sight of the fact that sometimes, in some places, muslims and jews and christians have lived together peacefully (Morocco and Turkey comes to mind). Why were these circumstances different than others???
Carl Hicks - Sep 14, 2012 12:07 AM
our "allies" are Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and enemy number one was a Saudi
we hunted down and found in Pakistan. I found that quite ironic.
I heard an interesting idea on solving the Iranian nuclear situation
Give them our oldest smallest warhead then explain that we have 20,000 and
they have 1 use yours wisely.
WFB resident - Sep 14, 2012 8:51 AM
and Goliath once . It has been around a long time ! Yet somehow, some still think
that all are scared of great odds . The only thing that diminishes most of it is actually
doing something ! To prove your force . Having only these drones doing something,
is not showing your strength . Apologizing for different religions shows sympathy !
To be exploited . It started with one ,now it has spread to many .
In my view point , it started when ows thugs was allowed to occupy our public
areas ! lol...
ahemmer - Sep 14, 2012 6:04 PM
The liberals can laugh all they want, but the sad reality is that many Muslims hate us - the United States. Not because of some stupid YouTube movie, but because we exist. Period.
Barack Obama came into office and thought because he wanted all flowers and unicorns and the "we'll work with you" ideology towards terrorists that all would be right with the world.
Well, it isn't.
And Barry & Co. continue to make the U.S. look weak and pathetic.
The sooner Romney gets in office, the better.
jman99 - Sep 14, 2012 8:48 PM
I guess you don't need to look too far in Wisconsin to find the roots of hate.
Go home Hemmer.
WFB resident - Sep 14, 2012 10:36 PM
political or not , Not smart ! I find it funny that those on the left want socialism yet
they will not leave Ameica ! If you feel that you can make friends with them and their
way is so good please leave this country !! No comments needed , Just leave ! Have
fun and do not let our millitary hit you in the behind when you go . lol...
aneuhauser - Sep 15, 2012 12:26 AM
MG: I'm not so sure about the zealot business. I think they thought of themselves as martyrs, which in many cultures is considered heroic, i.e. dying for a cause.
Carl: I think the Saudis are masters of deceit. They sit there above the fray, enable the Wahabbi Muslim extremists and fund terrorists. They do this to preserve their rotten kingdom and the western world supports them because of their oil.
WFB: We have a tendency in this country to minimize threats that we don't know how to deal with. We ignore problems that don't appear to have a solution, like militant Islam.
Amy: I think you're agreeing with me in general. I think the warhead bit was not serious. (It wasn't, was it Carl?)
Thank you all for civil comments.
aneuhauser - Sep 15, 2012 12:27 AM
aneuhauser - Sep 15, 2012 12:30 AM
MGarber - Sep 15, 2012 7:47 AM
And when you get down to it, isnt that the most realistic concept of peace?
MGarber - Sep 15, 2012 7:50 AM
We've made mistakes, yes, but we've made mistakes against alot of different countries/people. This is fundamentally (no pun intended) different.
jman99 - Sep 15, 2012 11:18 AM
I don't think it's a "side".
It is much more fluid than that.
What you see is more factionalism vs. presence.
There are factions that want holy wars and Armageddon world wide. What the USA does better than most, is to provide a focus for some of those factions.
When we condemn all based on the operations of a faction, we make no friends with the general population.
WFB resident - Sep 16, 2012 7:56 AM
be demolished ? Is that not what happened when 9/11 happened ? Why not take
those who think this is OK, and have them placed in the remaining US properties, in
Muslim rich countries ? Yes fjl there is so much thought in your way of doing things
.lol...
WFB resident - Sep 16, 2012 9:48 AM
Frau Clinton was for the retribution ? Do you not recall that the information that Bush
recieved allowed the o to get the Osama ? Do you not recall club Gitmo ? Most
Dumocrats in the hose wanted Bush to get retrobution ! Yet some how fjl wants to
pretend that his safety here in the US just happened . Yeah he is yusing all of his
thought processes ! lol... By the way who told you my real name ?
WFB resident - Sep 16, 2012 5:05 PM
said out of text is another PDLS wish ! Yet only those who are drinking their koolaid
would think his argument is stable . lol...
WFB resident - Sep 16, 2012 10:25 PM
stable ?
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 17, 2012 2:53 PM
Within that temporal plain, the space is defined by characteristic dualities - good/evil, light/dark, win/lose, life/death, etc., - with the ultimate duality being fear and desire.
Our human experience is that of the hero's journey - to slay the dragons in our lives. And, on every scale of that dragon are written two words - fear and desire.
That is our life challenge - to slay that dragon.
When we do that, we disengage from the temporal and experience the eternal (timelessness) existence. That is how we experience true peace in our lives - shut out the temporal, leave behind the challenging dualities.
Christian monks practice the ascetic life. The solitary Buddhist monk lives a life of meditation on a mountain top. They have discovered this fact.
So, short of disconnecting completely from the temporal, the peace in our lives will be fleeting.
Or, as W.B. Yeats wrote of the Lake Isle of Innisfree -
"And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow,
Dropping from the veils of the morning to where the crickets sing."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ptVEZ0vEEE&feature=fvwrel
WFB resident - Sep 17, 2012 3:41 PM
only dragon I see is the PDLS's way of living . But even that I have no bneed to
defeat it . For it is going to defeat itself !! lol...
Carl Hicks - Sep 18, 2012 12:01 AM
As to my give them one comment...like I said, remind them we have 20,000 so
use your one very wisely...'cause you'll never use another after the one.
aneuhauser - Sep 18, 2012 1:00 AM
WFB resident - Sep 18, 2012 7:07 AM
showing them 200 ? What will stop them from dismantling the one you gave them
and using it to build hundreds ? Your analogy is so child like that I am dumbfounded,
that a gr--n up would believe such a thing !
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 18, 2012 10:36 AM
Let's all step back from this discussion of hate, terrorism, religion, politics and put it all into a much larger context.
"Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;" WB Yeats, The Second Coming 1919
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXe6JakBwkk
What revelation is at hand?
Who's hour has come around at last?
What events did Yeats foresee in 1919?
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 18, 2012 11:29 AM
Unlike the winged dragon or the feathered serpent, you are hopelessly bound to your temporal existence, truly incapable of soaring in spiritual flight.
I would suggest that you work a little more overtime so you can go out and buy some more stuff with which you can surround yourself – and find your peace and happiness.
As for the rest of Al’s loyal followers, I would strongly encourage a well-developed spiritual life because this material life will not be worth a tinker’s dam for quite some time.
And for you WFB, just remember this – The pain you will experience is only equal to your inability to let go.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum – mi amigos.
jman99 - Sep 18, 2012 12:01 PM
Loss of the old order of things. Remember 1919, the war had ended; Versailles was the meeting of minds and the League of Nations was utopian.
And it would all fall apart, this great chance to change the world, because of self interests.
And another war would follow, and another after that, and another after that.....
WFB resident - Sep 18, 2012 12:18 PM
are assuming ? Plus what work overage are you talking about ? Plus why do you
assume I am not able to fly with m,y spiritual life ? Your comments are full of
speculations that you wish to be true or they are what your family shows you .
(Dante at his finest) ! lol... What is Miami go's ? lol...
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 18, 2012 1:44 PM
There has been much speculation as to what he was referring. WWI had just ended.
Ireland itself had experienced the Easter Rising of 1916 and he could have been referring to the political and military tensions leading up to the civil war of 1922.
Yeats himself was strong supporter of Irish independence.
I think he is clearly talking about cycles with the "turning and turning in the widening gyre." We know Yeats was an astute astrologist. The great astrological year is roughly 25,000 years and is comprised of procession of 12 astrological ages - each lasting about 2000 years.
Astrologers today believe we are on the "cusp" of the transit from the age Pisces into the new age of Aquarius. It is generally believed that the last cusp was coincident with the birth of Christ when the earth transited from Aries (the Ram) to Pisces (the Fish).
Judeo-Christian religions are full of astrological references. The Lamb (Ram) of God, the Christian Symbol (fish/Pisces), Easter is always the first Sunday following the first full moon following the vernal equinox, ...etc., etc., etc.
"Twenty centuries of stoney sleep" - We are on the cusp, mi amigos. The death of the old age and the birth of the new. The old falls apart and, like a new-born lamb, the coming age struggles to find it's footing.
The evolution of man is not a straight line. It is marked by fits and starts. We think we are so advanced yet we so quickly resort to tribal impulse.
Oh, by the way, the ancient Maya knew what was coming as well.
Pax Domini, mi amigos, Pax Domini.
aneuhauser - Sep 18, 2012 4:12 PM
From now on, you are permanently banned from my blog. You are the first with whom I have done this, and I hope the last. I have rejected all your comments.
I am truly sorry.
Bernie Ziebart - Sep 18, 2012 9:27 PM
quran Chapter:2 Verse:193
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and non-Islamic behavior, discussion, politics, or religion) and religion and politics is only for Allah. But if they cease, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers."
bukhari Volume:1 Book:8 Number:387
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'No one has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."
osama bin laden (may 1998)
"I am one of the servants of allah. We do our duty of fighting for the sake of the religion of allah. It is also our duty to send a call to all the people of the world to enjoy this great light and to embrace islam and experience the happiness in islam. Our primary mission is nothing but the furthering of this religion."
quran Chapter:61 Verse:9
He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religions however much idolaters may be averse.
An Islamic protest covered in England.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8CKNEFJrW8
Bernie Ziebart - Sep 18, 2012 9:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiSqnjRkgpM&feature=related
aneuhauser - Sep 19, 2012 12:39 AM
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 19, 2012 12:26 PM
Here is my problem with the more fundamentalist religions. When reading or interpreting religious symbols or texts, they tend to concretize (as in concrete) the object.
For example – When you go into a restaurant and study the menu, and you find an entrée that sounds particularly appetizing, you don’t rip that description out of the menu and eat it.
When you concretize religious symbols it is reduced to – “What you see is what you get.” In symbolic logic, particularly religious symbolism, the symbol is ALWAYS meant to OPEN UP – to allow you to pass through and experience what is on the other side. They are to act as a gateway to open your mind and heart to allow for a “transformation of consciousness. “
For an example - In the Catholic tradition there are a lot of statues. People unfamiliar with that tradition would think Catholics are praying to that statue of the Virgin Mary. That would be concretizing the symbol.
The same is true with the reading of sacred texts. Is the Bible, or Koran, meant to be read “literally”? Or, was it meant to be read “contextually”? The more mature religions read them contextually.
Keep in mind, these texts were written in the language of the Guru. Part of our problem is that our Western Civilization is rooted in Aristotelian logic. For example – His followers ask, “Oh Lord, where can we find your kingdom?” An Aristotelian response would be – “Oh, you mean Heaven? Just get on a space ship, travel to the Galaxy Zork, take a left, then travel 200 billion light years and it will be on your right – you can’t miss it.”
Do you get my point? That is why people are still being stoned to death in the middle-East. That is why we still have Religious homophobes in the United States.
If you are looking for the root cause for many of our world problems today – just follow the sacred.
WFB resident - Sep 19, 2012 12:49 PM
to destroy those that follow . Just look at Progressives (on the left ) ! When Bush
was in office they said to cause problems for our goverment is good for our
goverment . Now thast the o is in office . I do not see one l-Progressive trying to
cause problems for the o . They are ,but they are not trying . Why ? Yes I believe
that norte's beliefs are religious to him ! lol...
Bernie Ziebart - Sep 19, 2012 2:52 PM
A Pakistani businessman, Haji Nasrullah Khan, was arrested for refusing to participate in the riots over the weekend.
The protesters claimed Khan insulted the Prophet while arguing with them, said city police chief Fareed Jan. But he said there was no evidence to suggest the insults really occurred and that police only opened a blasphemy case because they were pressured by the mob. Opening such a case doesn’t mean the person is necessarily charged with the crime but that police are investigating him or her.
Protesters ransacked Khan’s house, and surrounded a police station, refusing to go away until officials opened a blasphemy case, police officer Munir Abbasi said.
The situation became even more inflamed when religious leaders from one of the biggest mosques in the city issued an edict calling for Khan’s death and announced from the mosque’s loudspeakers that he should be killed, Abbasi said.
Under Pakistan’s blasphemy laws, anyone found guilty of defiling the holy book, or Quran, or insulting Islam’s Prophet Muhammad can face life in prison or death.
Critics say the laws are often abused to harass non-Muslims or to settle personal rivalries. Radical Islamist groups have been behind most of the blasphemy accusations. Radicals use blasphemy to demand a uniformity of thought.
In this case, Abbasi said, police suspect some of the complaints against Khan by other shopkeepers may have been sparked more by his desire to evict some of them for late payment as opposed to any actual insults.
A report by the Islamabad-based Center for Research and Security Studies said that since 1990, 52 people have been killed by vigilantes after being implicated in blasphemy cases.
Earlier this summer a mob in one Pakistani city dragged an accused blasphemer from a police building, beat him to death and burned the body.
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 19, 2012 2:58 PM
Since we are talking about religion and peace, I have just one question for you.
Just what in Hell are you talking about?
Mr. Del Norte
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 19, 2012 3:27 PM
Referring to my previous post, that is the problem - every religion has followers who practice an immature form of their faith. They read their sacred texts literally and they concretize their symbols.
Then, when you compound the problem by integrating the power of government, as in Sharia Law, you get a big mess like Iran.
How do you explain countries that are predominately Muslim, like Jordan, who have embraced modernity? How do you explain the vast majority of Muslims in this country who have embraced religious freedom and live very peaceful lives?
Radical Islam embraces a bastardization of their religion by the concretization and literal interpretation of the sacred.
The reality is we still have Christian snake-handlers in this country.
Evolution comes more slowly for some people.
Put down the broad brush, Bernie. Just follow the sacred.
WFB resident - Sep 19, 2012 8:04 PM
what point did you give ? I am not sure if you did . For ex I was talking about the o
and his policies being a cult like religion ! No reality that it works ! (All reality that it
fails) But just alot of (As the o said "I will lower the seas" ,"I will make more jobs", "
I will help the poor" !!! But then ask him how and the o just repeats that He will do it
! Then you ask the o what did you do the last 4 years . His answer , :Well I was
given a big problem" So if he gets in another 4 years what will he do ? He has an
even bigger problem now !! huh ? lol... Some how logic escapes PDLS's and the
Dumocrats in general !!
aneuhauser - Sep 20, 2012 1:05 AM
Literal, contextual interpretation of the Christian New Testament elicits no encouragement of violence. However, literal, contextual interpretation of the Koran still leaves one with violence and lethality. Hence my indictment of the religion rather than its practitioners.
George: I rejected your comment since it contains a personally insulting term. Your point is well taken with respect to my use of "John". I will cease and desist.
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 20, 2012 7:17 AM
I just want to clarify;
"ahemmer - Aug 28, 2012 11:47 AM» Report abuse 0 0 Click thumb to rate
And right back at you, PDN/Buck/Cosette/John Markham"
For the record, our Dear Ms . Hemmer demonstrates, once again, that she has absolutely no idea what she is talking about.
But then, let's keep in mind that one of the defining characteristics of extreme right wing conservatives is they have a profound ability, and a seemingly innate eagerness, to express opinions on subjects that they know absolutely nothing about.
Thank you Al for that indulgence. Now, can we return to our regularly scheduled programing?
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 20, 2012 10:26 AM
Thank you for your thoughtful response. But then, I would not have expected anything less.
“What you are referring to is selective interpretation, where humans pick and choose within religious text to suit their own value systems.” - Al
Selective interpretation is not what I am referring to here. Clearly, there is a difference between a literal reading of sacred texts versus a contextual reading.
“Lateralization does not obviate contextualization.” - Al.
I think for most evangelicals and fundamentalist it most certainly does. The problem, as I see it, is compounded by the belief that the literal words are the inerrant word of God. This is the ground from which religious extremism sprouts.
For example; in our “advanced” Western culture, we have believers who totally reject the preponderance of scientific evidence and demand “Creationism” be taught in public schools. In my view, and I believe most who are contexualists, would consider this to be extreme.
Finally Al, I note that you artfully limited your comparison of the Koran to the New Testament. Reading through the Old Testament is not for the faint of heart. Clearly, the God of the Old Testament was a pretty wrathful deity – lots of stones, and swords, and fire, and blood on the doorposts, etc.
My point? - If you are going to indict a religion on the basis of how much extremism and violence is contained in its ancient sacred texts, that is going to be a very, very big problem. Rather, your indictment should be directed at those religious extremist who use a literal interpretation of words and a fundamentalist belief they are the inerrant word of God, to justify horrific human atrocities.
Bernie Ziebart - Sep 20, 2012 4:44 PM
There is struggle in Islam for control between the radicals and the moderates. I fear that the radicals have the upper hand.
In the early 1970's, Iran was considered to the model of a moderate Islamic secular country. In the 1980's Turkey became the new model. Even Pakistan at one time in recent history was a moderate secular country. Unfortunately, the era of moderation was short lived. Turkey, with Ergodan, is driving Turkey hard down the path of radicalism. Pakistan has become radicalized over the past few years. And Iran has gone just crazy.
MGarber - Sep 21, 2012 7:56 AM
Im glad to hear you think thats a good thing, BZ. There are forces right here that abhor our own secularism.
But yes, the struggle between the radicals and the moderates has been going on since the early 20th century, which is why its so important we, as a people and country, distinguish between the 2, and dont fall for the islamophobic BS peddeled by MBachmann and her friends.
Bernie Ziebart - Sep 21, 2012 9:49 AM
"dont fall for the islamophobic BS peddeled by MBachmann and her friends"
Don't fall for the disinformation that Michelle Bachmann is peddling islamophobia. She is setting up boundaries against radical Islam. There is an enormous difference. No one, not even the Christian fundamentalists, have a problem with moderate Islam (the Jordanian flavor). They do have a problem with the radical Muslim Brotherhood flavor and the coddling of the radical Islamists within our administration and media.
When you erect a fence on your yard, it doesn't mean that you hate your neighbor.
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 21, 2012 10:40 AM
Just what in heavens name are you talking about here, Bernie?
Please give me a concrete example of the administration or the media "CODDLING" radical Islamists.
As for the Muslim Brotherhood - Wasn't there a free election in Egypt? Didn't Morsi win the election with 51.3% of the vote?
Perhaps you consider respecting a legitimate and real fledgling democracy to be an act of CODDLING? Look at Jordan - these transition just don't happen overnight. Morsi has gone from leading protests in the streets to governing a nation of diverse political interests.
If you have any hope for a moderate outcome in Egypt you don't build walls like Bachmann's crowd wants to do.
You ENGAGE!!!
MGarber - Sep 21, 2012 11:05 AM
Good one!
The problem is, she sees radical Islam wherever she looks. Her attach on Huma Abedin was just a recent example of what can only be described as hysteria. She is doing no one any good, and Im proud of the Rupublicans that took her to task for it.
Amazingly, she has a real chance of loosing her seat in the upcomming election.
WFB resident - Sep 21, 2012 1:02 PM
dumb !
Bernie Ziebart - Sep 21, 2012 1:09 PM
Since the Egyptian election of Morsi, what has happened to the Coptic Christian population? Genocide. Since the media and administration focus has not given this any attention, how is this supposed to be interpreted? A large portion of coddling is through the omission of news
MGarber,
The issues in Bachmann - Huma exchange are still unanswered. Does Huma have relatives who are members of the Muslim Brotherhood (to what degree of involvement)? What influence do these relatives have over Huma? Has Huma affected the administration's policies concerning Israel?
Bachmann was attacked for raising the questions, but the questions were never answered.
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 21, 2012 1:40 PM
Coddling by omission? Please!
From our our National Liberal Radio - http://www.npr.org/2012/08/15/158569357/egypts-christians-form-their-own-brotherhood
Or perhaps - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19089474
Or, http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/18/13942315-us-muslims-walk-tightrope-denouncing-both-violence-and-anti-islam-film?lite
Even - http://articles.cnn.com/2012-09-18/world/world_film-protests_1_copts-and-muslims-coptic-christians-coptic-community
Please Bernie - if you can't do better than that..........
MGarber - Sep 21, 2012 2:45 PM
Sort of like Joe McCarthy??
No; exactly like Joe McCarthy (but probably with less alcohol).
aneuhauser - Sep 21, 2012 3:55 PM
With regard to your assumption of the absolute truth of evolutionary/cosmological theory, I happen to be a creationist by analysis, not dogma. See my post "In the Beginning..." in the archives, 18 Dec 08.
Et al: Once and for all, I would appreciate ceasing and desisting with the non-relevent criticism and insulting of Amy Hemmer. I happen to like the lady but do not read her blog. Her opinions are not mine.
Bernie Ziebart - Sep 21, 2012 3:55 PM
The NPR article makes a half-hearted attempt to address the violence against the Coptic Christians. But I didn't see this information on the PBS news on TV. It's one thing to be in print, but unless the TV viewers actually see, it really doesn't make an impression.
The CNN article actually makes my point. It focuses on the defamation video and the people (reportedly Coptics living in the US) who created it. "Egyptian authorities have charged seven Coptic Christians living in the United States and a Florida pastor with insulting Islam and inciting sectarian strife for their alleged links to an online video that has enraged much of the Muslim world."
Pierre, if we had an enterprising objective media, we would know what is being taught at Muslim schools, we would see the Al Qaeda training camps, we would see on the nightly news of the Islamic attacks on the Coptic christians in Egypt, the riots in Pakistan and the attacks in Nigeria and Kenya.
It's only because I get other world magazines (Voice of the martyrs, not exactly inside the mainstream media) that I have a glimpse of what radical Islamists are doing. It covers much of the Islamic violence from Indonesia, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, Egypt, etc. Rarely is anything covered by the US media.
I do not recall seeing the media cover the fresh wave of al qaeda violence in Nigeria in August.
http://www.channelkoos.com/index.php/news/2316-al-qaeda-plots-fresh-attacks-on-nigeria-others
The slaughter of Catholics in the Ivory Coast in 2011 went unreported. http://www.pittsreport.com/2011/04/massacre-muslim-troops-slaughter-1000-christians-in-ivory-coast/
jman99 - Sep 21, 2012 4:25 PM
No, but it does affect his view of the world.
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 21, 2012 5:15 PM
It is not referred to as the Judeo-Christian tradition for nothing. It is true - Christianity is primarily based on the person of Jesus Christ as recorded in the NT. But to truly understand the fullness of Christianity, you must view "The Word Made Flesh" as the fulfillment of the promise and prophecy of the old testament.
I am not sure, but I think the Ten Commandments are still a pretty integral part of Christian theology.
"Incidentally, the Bible is considered by Christians to be the INSPIRED word of God, not His verbatim words" - Al
I did not suggest that the Bible is considered the word of God verbatim. Most Christians believe that God inspired the original authors who wrote what is contained in the Bible. Because of that, evangelicals and fundamentalists believe that the text, as originally written, is inerrant (without error).
My point is that, when you combine the literal reading with the belief in its inerrantcy, you produce the fertile soil from which religious extremism sprouts.
Whether it is a Muslim woman blowing herself up and killing others in the name of her God - Or, a Christian who assassinates a doctor who may provide abortions in the name of his God - They are both radical acts rooted in religious extremism.
They both originate from that same fertile soil.
Thanks for the reference to you piece on evolution - I will read it.
WFB resident - Sep 21, 2012 7:49 PM
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 21, 2012 11:36 PM
This is why we ENGAGE -
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/world/africa/pro-american-libyans-besiege-militant-group-in-benghazi.html?_r=0
Bachmann and her crowd do not have a clue.
Thank GOD she might be gone in November.
WFB resident - Sep 22, 2012 12:43 AM
are doing the good fight to show solidarity with the US !!!! No truer Tea Party people
those pro Amwerican Libians !! lol...I wonder if they will comer to the USA and help
us get rid if that extremist in the WH ?
MGarber - Sep 22, 2012 8:20 AM
I did a double take at this as well, but Im giving Al a pass here. In reading about the upcomming John Stewart / Bill OReiley debate, it turns out that they have a odd sort of friendship.
So who knows?? None of us have partied with her, have they??
Pierre Del Norte - Sep 22, 2012 11:23 AM
Her behavior proved to be the epitome of grace and decorum.
At least I think it was her.
And, I think it was the Phoenix.
aneuhauser - Sep 22, 2012 5:34 PM
ExToDResident - Sep 22, 2012 9:25 PM
sentiments stirred by their blogs. I admit that I have not always been successful
at my attempts.
I have (as suggested) endeavored to "do better than that".
We appreciate your patients for those of us who havn't checked out attitudes at
the door.
WFB resident - Sep 24, 2012 7:41 PM
? Yep so much so, that they want to kill Americans to get it ! lol...