Swine Flu: a national emergency? or a distraction?

I wonder how many of those "30,000 people" that die from the flu every year had health insurance?

referee33: Most flu deaths are among the elderly (over 65) who have not had a flu shot and have other health issues to begin with. And in America, it doesn't matter if one doesn't have health insurance during flu season. Go to any emergency room, and you will be treated. It was difficult to find any statistics on anyone dying from a lack of health insurance from the flu in America, which leads me to believe the percentage cannot be that large. If it was, the liberal media would be writing about it 24-7.

As an interesting side note, since the swine flu scare began, and now that Obama has declared the swine flu a "national emergency", emergency rooms across the country (especially near the border of Mexico) have seen a huge increase in people coming in - with little more than common colds. They are afraid they have the swine flu. People are scared - and the surge in volume in ER's is taxing health care professionals. ER's are busier than normal and unable to donate the time to see the people who really need help vs. those who are just worried.

And remember who said they weren't going to run the country based on "fear?" Obama. Guess what The One is doing? Looks like my belief is true - whatever Obama says, he does the exact opposite. First he scared everyone that the economy would fail if his porkulus bill wasn't rushed through. Look what happened there...Then we had dire warnings if his health care bill didn't get passed right away - in August! At least the American people managed to put the brakes on that monstrosity power grab. And now the Swine Flue is the rage....What next?

Amy, you crack me up. Why didn't you just provide the link to Glenn Beck's show for this post? It would have saved me the time of reading it, since I listened to the crazy man this morning.....

CD: I don't listen to or watch Glenn Beck. Sorry to disappoint. Any other comments?

CD: Forgot to add, my blog posted last night. If you listened to Glenn Beck this a.m., looks like my story came first...hmmmm. Did Beck scoop me? And I wonder, since you imply that my stuff was the same as Beck's -did he use the story of my daughter's visit to the ER in whatever he talked about? If so, my daughter got her fifteen minutes of fame. She'll be delighted to hear that.

For my other readers, here is a link provided by another reader to some more information on swine flu which questions the "emergency" status of this flu, as well as other questions concerning swine flu testing: click on:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/21/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5406025.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea

It's from CBS news, so the libs out there should believe it...

"You know very well that whether you are on page one or page thirty depends on whether they fear you. It is just as simple as that."
- Richard Nixon

That's surprising since his show used the exact same talking points that you did here. It felt like deja vu...But yes Amy, I have other comments. How about the fact that declaring a National Emergency is largely an admistrative move to allow hospitals and local governments the ability to execute disaster plans if they are overwhelmed with patients, allowing them to transfer to satellite facilities or other hospitals? And how about the fact that worldwide, the swine flu has claimed nearly 5,000 lives, according to the WHO? U.S. officials say more than 1,000 Americans have died because of it so far. How about the fact that it is sweeping over our kids and killing many of them, unlike the "seasonal flu"? Are you not part of the Hartland/Merton school district? Almost half the students at Hartland South are out sick, Kettle Moraine has the same issue.....the unknown element of this illness HAS to be respected - it is NOT like the "seasonal flu". We do not know why it is killing children that have no underlying medical conditions. And that is reason enough to provide the necessary tools for the medical industry to take precautions and be prepared for the worst = National Emergency.

But of course, to you - it is just another reason to slam the President of the United States. Kudos to you, Amy.

Amy

Present Swine Flu mild in Spring ...
Mostly affects Young People ...

Those are THE reasons that the Experts are concerned.

Forget your anecdotal information --- forget that most health care workers are not experts (despite our private health care system -- or maybe because of it, many of them are clueless) ..

Read the following from the National Archives about the Spanish Flu --- 1918 --- and you will learn why health care EXPERTS are very concerned --- not because they know what the present Swine flu will mutate into --- but precisely because they do NOT know what it will --- but what it COULD !!!
-------------------------------------------------------------
World War I claimed an estimated 16 million lives. The influenza epidemic that swept the world in 1918 killed an estimated 50 million people. One fifth of the world's population was attacked by this deadly virus. Within months, it had killed more people than any other illness in recorded history.
The plague emerged in two phases. In late spring of 1918, the first phase, known as the "three-day fever," appeared without warning. Few deaths were reported. Victims recovered after a few days. When the disease surfaced again that fall, it was far more severe. Scientists, doctors, and health officials could not identify this disease which was striking so fast and so viciously, eluding treatment and defying control. Some victims died within hours of their first symptoms. Others succumbed after a few days; their lungs filled with fluid and they suffocated to death.
The plague did not discriminate. It was rampant in urban and rural areas, from the densely populated East coast to the remotest parts of Alaska. Young adults, usually unaffected by these types of infectious diseases, were among the hardest hit groups along with the elderly and young children. The flu afflicted over 25 percent of the U.S. population. In one year, the average life expectancy in the United States dropped by 12 years.

my

Present Swine Flu mild in Spring ...
Mostly affects Young People ...

Those are THE reasons that the Experts are concerned.

Forget your anecdotal information --- forget that most health care workers are not experts (despite our private health care system -- or maybe because of it, many of them are clueless) ..

Read the following from the National Archives about the Spanish Flu --- 1918 --- and you will learn why health care EXPERTS are very concerned --- not because they know what the present Swine flu will mutate into --- but precisely because they do NOT know what it will --- but what it COULD !!!
-------------------------------------------------------------
World War I claimed an estimated 16 million lives. The influenza epidemic that swept the world in 1918 killed an estimated 50 million people. One fifth of the world's population was attacked by this deadly virus. Within months, it had killed more people than any other illness in recorded history.
The plague emerged in two phases. In late spring of 1918, the first phase, known as the "three-day fever," appeared without warning. Few deaths were reported. Victims recovered after a few days. When the disease surfaced again that fall, it was far more severe. Scientists, doctors, and health officials could not identify this disease which was striking so fast and so viciously, eluding treatment and defying control. Some victims died within hours of their first symptoms. Others succumbed after a few days; their lungs filled with fluid and they suffocated to death.
The plague did not discriminate. It was rampant in urban and rural areas, from the densely populated East coast to the remotest parts of Alaska. Young adults, usually unaffected by these types of infectious diseases, were among the hardest hit groups along with the elderly and young children. The flu afflicted over 25 percent of the U.S. population. In one year, the average life expectancy in the United States dropped by 12 years.

And, even though an ER will treat you, you still will have a bill coming if you don't have insurance. And, keep in mind that if you don't have insurance, the ER/Hospital will charge you the full rate. For those without medical insurance, yes, you can go to any hospital/ER/medical facility and get treatment, but it will cost you unless you are on some government program which in that case the rest of us that are paying outrageous health insurance premiums will end up paying for via those increased premiums and additional hikes on healthcare. The same is true if you decide not to pay the bill in the first place. Gotta love the way healthcare is set up in the U.S.

Have a great week!

Amy: Inferring that "government-run health care" will be inefficient based on the shortage of H1N1 vaccine is wrong. The shortage of vaccine is due to the manufacturer's problems, not the government. We experienced the same thing during the 2004 Bird Flu epidemic, when one of the two British firms supplying the vaccine, had to destroy half of their production due to contamination.

Christian Democrat: By declaring Swine Flu a "national emergency" when it clearly is not, Obama & Co. have given themselves the following powers:

1) The power to force mandatory swin flu vaccinations on the entire population.
2) The power to arrest, quarantine, or "involuntarily transport" anyone who refuses a swine flu vaccination.
3) The power to quarantine an entire city and halt all travel out of that city.
4) The power to enter any home or office without a search warrant and order the destruction of any belongings or structures deemed to be a threat to public health.
5) The effective nullification of the Bill of Rights. Your right to due process, to being safe from government search and seizure, and to remain silent to avoid self-incrimination are all null and void under a presidential declaration of a national emergency.

Does a real national emergency even exist? I think not. CD, you even state that world wide, since swine flu came into being, that the swine flu has killed 5,000 people. Is that an epidemic? No. Again, the regular flu in the U.S. kills 36,000 plus every year. Yet, no national emergency declared.

dtatarowicz: You state regarding the swine flu being a national emergency because: "health care EXPERTS are very concerned --- not because they know what the present Swine flu will mutate into --- but precisely because they do NOT know what it will --- but what it COULD !!!"

Sorry, but I couldn't help but think of Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize -not for anything he has done, but for things he has said he will do or is thinking of....

Amy: What are the relevant sections of law that provide for the powers you say the government now has under this declaration of national emergency?

"5) The effective nullification of the Bill of Rights. Your right to due process, to being safe from government search and seizure, and to remain silent to avoid self-incrimination are all null and void under a presidential declaration of a national emergency."

Sounds like the Patriot Act actually.....

And Amy, I certainly hope that you are correct. I hope this disease does not become what it is feared to be. But I am certainly happy that our President is taking a pro-active approach, listening to the experts and not waiting till after the disaster to say, "Gee, wish I could have known how serious this was going to be"......kinda like Katrina, don't you think?

(The quote is made up - it is not attributed to any individual. )

Christian Democrat: Regarding Hurricane Katrina - the people on the Gulf Coast were given ample warning to evacuate. What failed in New Orleans was the bureacracy - led by a Democratic Mayor and Governor. They had no clue what to do. Busses to evacuate sat idle in parking lots. We all saw the pics. And some people refused to leave. The hurricane struck - there was nothing anyone could do to prevent it. And the Federal Government did come in to help out. (Now, of course many Obama fans probably believe that Barry could raise his hands and divert Hurricanes away, but Bush couldn't.) And as we discovered in New Orleans, many people were so used to relying on the government for everything, that they couldn't do anything on their own. They sat and waited for help. Now, not all did, of course, but a great number of people didn't take any initiative to aid themselves (why do you think people are still living in government-provided housing to this day - years after Katrina?). We have seen people in other disasters start the clean-up themselves, not waiting for the Feds to come to the rescue. Look at the difference between Hurricane Charlie and Hurricane Katrina. Which places got rebuilt? The one where people in the community began the hard work of cleaning up and fixing things. The Federal government can and should provide the basics to bring a community back to life. But at some point, the people who actually live in the community should, and usually do, take ownership - on the local and state level.

And if Obama is taking a "pro-active approach, listening to the experts" regarding a made-up crisis of swine flu, why can't he do the same in regards to Afghanistan? You know, he could listen to his own generals about needing more troops in order not to lose? Take a pro-active approach?

Most of the people that didn't evacuate in N.O. didn't have the money to leave. It was the end of the month and they had already spent all of their welfare/S.S. checks. I blame the city officials as well as federal for not putting an evacuation plan in place. The amount of money that was spent to rescue those in trouble amounted to millions of dollars. Another case of not being prepared or smart enough to listen to the warnings.

"There are, however, limits and restraints upon the President in his exercise of emergency powers. With the exception of the habeas corpus clause, the Constitution
makes no allowance for the suspension of any of its provisions during a national emergency. Disputes over the constitutionality or legality of the exercise of emergency powers are judicially reviewable. Indeed, both the judiciary and Congress, as co-equal branches, can restrain the executive regarding emergency powers. So can public opinion."

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/98-505.pdf

It requires a real stretch of the imagination to believe the president would, under these circumstances, suspend habeas corpus. This power grabbing nonsense is circulating the rightwingosphere.

Keep in mind, the villagers thrive on paranoia.

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" - Benjamin Franklin

Or we can ignore the warning signs like W and clean up the mess later!

Leave it to you Amy to somehow come up with a justified (in your mind) reason for Bush's FAILURE with Katrina. Of course, it must be those people's fault for being lazy.....While Bush was on a month long vacation, which he couldn't be bothered till 3 days after Katrina hit to finally do a little 20 minute fly over to see NO. What a great man he is, right? And there is no comparison for Hurricane Charlie ($18.9 billion in 09 damages) and Katrina ($90.9 billion). I don't even know what the relevance of that comment is.

As for Afganistan, it took your guy 8 months to come up with a failed plan, so why not allow Obama a few WEEKS to come up with a solid one.....

Actually, CD, when Bush was leading the war effort in Afghanistan, the United States was holding it's own. With Obama in charge, it's gone downhill - rapidly. And who called Afghanistan the "necessary war" - B.O.! Care to explain? While you are at it, explain why Barack Obama can never even say the word "win." It just doesn't seem to be in his vocabulary.

As for Hurricanes, the worst Hurricane ever to hit the United States occurred in 1900 and wiped out the entire town of Galveston, Texas. 1,800 people died and it cost $157 billion dollars way back in 1900 - yet, who rebuilt Galveston? The locals. Those who survived. Do you think they sat on their butts waiting for the Feds? That type of mentality was rare back then. People assumed responsibility and went to work. Somewhere along the way, that idea has been lost - taken over by the "entitlement" mentality that prevailed in New Orleans.

Amy

Nice story about Galveston --- except NOT true.

1,800 people did not die in the 1900 hurricane --- it was ESTIMATED between 8,000 and 16,000 !!! In fact, the ground was too wet to bury them, and they did not want to use wood to cremate them (they needed wood for shacks to live in while trying to rebuild) --- so they loaded the bodies on barges --- took them out to sea and threw them in.

Despite your idyllic notion of the Galveston folks rolling up their sleeves and getting to work --- the army had to come in (the garrison that was there was wiped out and all 100 soldiers killed) -- and the city put under Martial Law,

Martial Law was needed because of all the looting, and the fact that all the institutions were destroyed, most of the city's officials, all the churches, etc ..... and the population was living in tents and lean to's in clearings and parks, and drinking all the booze they could find.

The Federal government sent in troops, food and supplies. Texas government did the same --- and aid poured in from around the world.

Pretty much everything that happened in NO happened in Galveston as far as lawlessness - looting - thievery - swindles - carpetbaggers etc.........

And it took a long, long time to rebuild Galveston to what it is today -- which is a mere shadow of what it was --- at the time it was the third largest city in Texas. Now it is probably smaller than most Dallas suburbs.

If you are ever in Houston, drop down there --- about 50 miles --- the fishing is great, I loved the charter I was on.

dtatarowicz:

Nice story, but not true. The number of lives lost in Galveston was more in the range of 6,000 to 12,000 (I used the figure of 1,800 from Katrina by accident). Almost 20% of the entire population was lost.

Martial law was declared for a short period. 125 people were accused of looting and criminal activities. However, there wasn't much left to loot from. Very few buildings remained in the aftermath of the storm. Galveston was completely cut off from the rest of the world for a period of time. Help came in from Houston, and the army supplied tents and supplies for the survivors. Free whiskey was given out to the work crews who cleaned up the bodies. (Maybe that's where you imply that people "were drinking all the booze they could find?"). The bodies were burned in funeral pyres. The Galveston government was divided up into groups with specific functions to rebuild the city. The seawall was started in 1902 and finished shortly after. 2,100 building were totally raised to help bring up the sea level of Galveston itself. So I wonder just how this mimics New Orleans. People in Galveston went to work - cleaning up the dead, tearing down the remains of buildings, building a seawall, raising Galveston itself. Sure, Galveston has some unrest for a short period immediately following the disaster, but it did not take long for the hard working citizens of Galveston, with help from their neighbor, Houston, to rebuild. Compare that to New Orleans.

Maybe we can get back to the subject of the post: Swine Flu: a national emergency? or a distraction?

Amy, I like how you keep catagorizing Afganistan as "going downhill - rapidly" as opposed to the disaster of Iraq...perhaps you should talk to someone that has actually been to both (and not your talking heads point of view) and get a real accessment of what is going on over there. Obama is taking his time to evaluate what is necessary to succeed in the mission, not WIN. It isn't about winning, Amy. That is the difference between Bush and Obama. And that is a HUGE difference. Obama is handling this situation with diligence and caution. Not like Bush, with arrogance and risk.

And as for the swine flu, I gave my assessment. And I just got off the phone with my daughter up in college and it appears she has it, along with many others. So please, do not disregard the concern or the need for caution and preparedness until you actually know what you are talking about.

Christian Dem: Since Obama was elected president, the number of fatalities in Afghanistan has been on the rise: http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-02-28-afghanistan_N.htm

And a once stable situation in Iraq has deteriorated: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/09/iraq-monthly-death-toll-highest-in-over-a-year.html

All since Obama has taken over the war on terror (oops, I mean "the overseas contingency operation"). Countries see Obama as weak, and unable to do anything - since he doesn't have the experience or will to deal with difficult situations. He will continue to be tested, and he will continue to fail - and he will continue to try to cozy up to our enemies while angering our allies like he did to Poland and the Czech Republic.

As for the swine flu - there is no emergency. It is a distraction, nothing more. As I stated in my post, every year tens of thousands of people die from the flu. And hundreds of thousands more get the flu and get over it. It's pretty much a fact of life. The flu has been with us for a long, long time. Yet, all of sudden, because in almost a year, 1,000 people have died - it's a "national emergency?" Get. real.

Amy...here's what will happen. If the swine flue is put under wraps, Obama and the socialistic democrats will use this as proof that government run health care can work. If not, they will say the not enough government intervention is the reason H1N1 spread.

Yeah! It's all one big conspiracy!

Habeas corpus, if I'm not mistaken is already null and void under the Patriot Act. If you don't think that any President of this country can do pretty much what they want, then you need to read all the Presidential Executive Orders. It will make your hair stand on end! You can find them on line. A simple google search and you can be reading for hours. Even under Bush there are orders to allow the President to become, basically, a Dictator in the event of a declared National State of Emergency. Don't believe it? Go and read what the Presidents have set up for themselves and Big Government. The so called Swine Flu pandemic will allow them to do pretty much what they want. The best you can hope for is that of State Rights, and the county Sheriffs if they follow the guide lines set forth in the Constitution to keep all Federal Agents out of their respective counties. Hang on for the ride, it is going to get rough. Obama can now declare himself the ruler of the US thanks to Bush's Executive Order.

I wonder what would have happened or what you would have said had President Bush declared H1N1 a national emergency. I doubt you would have been calling it a distraction. In fact, I believe you would have been praising him for his decision to do so.

djklein you are wrong. I did not support Bush or his crime family any more than I support any member of the government that is not entitled to lead this country, and that includes the current resident of the White House. Your answer is typical of most of the other sheeple being lead around by the ring in their nose by big brother. It amazes me how the majority of people in this country will tell you they don't trust the government, but will believe everything they tell them. I suspect this includes you. You probably believe in entitlements too. Things you think you deserve you never even earned. I think ahemmer knows what I am talking about. She at least has researched the things she reports. I too have been researching these kind of things for over forty years. Something you and the others need to start to do so you have a better understanding of what is coming down the pike at us.

Another thing, and I am also guilty of this, is the way everyone goes after another because of the way they say things. You are either a conservative or a liberal. Or, you are a racist, and on and on. People need to realize that as long as everyone is divided like this the government has complete and total control. The people of this country will never be able to work together for a common cause. Why are we fighting wars in other countries for other people when we won't even stand up here to try to save our own freedom. The so called freedoms we have in this country are slipping away real fast. By this I don't mean we have to resort to violence. But we do have to agree to stand for the right causes, and stand together.

Ozark Ed: I think you were a bit rough on djklein, considering his post was directed to hemmer.

In light of the fact that the president, on his second day in office, by executive order, granted the constitutional privilege of habeas corpus to Guantanamo detainees suggests to me that it would take extraordinary circumstances, for which I can't imagine, for him to suspend it. And you are mistaken, habeas is not null and void under the Patriot act.

happy holidays

Hate to tell you this but the H1N1 has not been just recently been brought to the headlines, its been going on for ??? a year??. Every organization I know of is warning and threatening us that doing nothing is doing something. I do not see this as a liberal or conservative agenda as both sides are beating the daylights out of this.

At work I get stuff from customers asking us if we have taken precautions, because if they need us, they don't want us to say the workforce is out sick.

So from the news headlines, from advertisements trying to sell precautions and from customers wanting to know our contigincy plans it makes you wonder what took the administration so long to push this to a higher level.

Personnally I think it way to much publicity/scare has gone into this, but I would have never label it a conservative vs liberal issue.

Amy: What are the relevant sections of law that provide for the powers you say the government now has under this declaration of national emergency? (2nd request) Or are they just fiction thought up to scare the country?

I stumbled on this column while looking for something else, and was amazed at the paranoia it must have taken to create it. I'll echo what referee33 has asked: what is your source for the extra-legal powers you claim the feds will have under the declaration? Or do you just write anything you want?

Every mortality and morbidity update at the national and state level has shown a consistently higher rate than seasonal influenza. Not a time for panic, but certainly to take realistic precautions.

Here is a great source for the description of what the President can do during a time of declared "national emergency":

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/6216.pdf
Be sure to look at page 5 and read on. Here's just a sample:

"These delegations or grants of power authorize the President to meet the
problems of governing effectively in times of crisis. Under the powers delegated by
such statutes, the President may seize property, organize and control the means of
production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law,
seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of
private enterprise, restrict travel, and, in a variety of ways, control the lives of United
States citizens."

Amy: page 2 of this opinion piece states, " with the exception of the habeas corpus clause, the Constitution makes no allowance for the suspension of any of its provisions during a national emergency". None of the points you stated has anything to do with habeas corpus, therefore they are not applicable. You still have not provided statuatory references to existing laws that give the federal government the powers you claim they have.

referee33: Somehow I don't think a CRS Report for Congress, government document #98-505, is an "opinion piece." If you check out various websites concerning national emergencies, this document is always one of the first listed.

And other web sources regarding "national emergencies" do state that the president can:
"seize property, organize and control the means of
production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law,
seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of
private enterprise, restrict travel, and, in a variety of ways, control the lives of United
States citizens."

If you don't want to believe the "opinion piece", go ahead, ref. I gave you what you asked, and you seem unable to handle the truth...

Amy: No matter what you may believe, the CRS is nothing more than a "think tank" or opinion source for Congress. You did not give me what I asked for. I asked specifically for what relevant sections of law authorize these powers. Not an opinion, actual statute references.